We talked with Nihan Kaya about her new book “There is No Good Society”

We had an enlightening conversation with Nihan Kaya about “There is No Good Society”, which she wrote as a continuation of her previous book “There is No Good Family”

Nihan Kaya reached many people by stating that there is no good family, which caused them to feel uneasy. This unease led to “There is No Good Society”. It’s just as shocking! This time, we had the opportunity to interview her. We all experience moments when we feel incredibly alone, and often this feeling is made worse by societal pressure! We discussed with Nihan Kaya the unrest caused by the wounds in the souls of both girls and boys…

I WRITE BECAUSE I FEEL SPEECHLESS AND HELPLESS IN EXPRESSING MYSELF

– I would like to start with my classic question: Who is Nihan Kaya?

I have always defined myself through what I write. In fact, I strongly believe that those who read my work know me better than those who spend time with me in real life. I am not what I walk or what I speak; but most of all, I am what I write. If I could express my concerns through everyday forms of communication, I wouldn’t need to write. I write because I feel speechless and helpless in expressing myself. Art comes from the impossibility of direct expression.

– After There is No Good Family, now you’re saying There is No Good Society. How did the idea of writing this duo come about? When did you decide?

Children and childhood have always been a part of what I write. Then, I strongly felt the need to talk about these issues verbally as well, to reach more people, and I started organizing a workshop titled “There is No Good Family” for people of all ages at Ayrıntı Academy. I was especially happy when young people aged 15-16 attended. When I began sharing with everyone I could reach the great harm caused by the stereotypes surrounding family and society, I was forced to see the magnitude of the need in this field in all its horror. I had to do something.

– And you decided to write?

I couldn’t stop people on the street one by one to tell them something – yes, I’ve always felt like doing this, and I still do – but maybe by summarizing my concerns in a book, I could reach more people. A book is an open letter to everyone, a call to be read. There is No Good Family and There is No Good Society are also cries for help. Many readers heard that cry and understood what I meant.

I DON’T WRITE UNLESS I FEEL OBLIGED

– Since we’re on the topic, can we also touch upon how your writing journey began?

When I was six years old, I was very clear that I wanted to be a writer. This remained clear throughout. By the time I finished elementary school, I had written several hundred plays and about thirty short stories. I also wrote several novels and numerous stories during middle school and high school. I published my first book at the age of 24. In fact, I had been writing for magazines since I was 19.

– Amazing! So, what’s your writing routine like?

Actually, my routine is more about reading than writing. I read quickly and consistently; reading is a must for me, but I write much more rarely and irregularly compared to how much I read. I don’t write unless I am absolutely compelled to write something. I don’t write unless I feel obliged.

– Who do you enjoy reading the most? Which genres?

I follow fiction writers from Europe. I love American short stories, but for example, I never warmed up to South American literature. Psychology and philosophy readings are already part of my work. Outside of that, I also read things for pleasure, like a guest.

THERE WAS NO RESEARCH PROCESS ACTUALLY

– You’ve titled the first section “There is No Good Ceremony”. When did you start noticing these things? What was the research process like?

I was certain that there was something wrong with ceremonies when I was about eleven or twelve. What I said in the book about circumcision, marriage, and wedding ceremonies, I was already saying at that time. There wasn’t an actual research process; I share things in the book that came up spontaneously in the things I read over the years. The different things I read in various fields of study, of course, guided my thoughts and shaped my interpretations. That’s why I give scattered examples from novels, films, anthropology, philosophy, etc.

– You’ve mentioned The Handmaid’s Tale and Women Who Run with the Wolves frequently. What was your feeling when you first read these books?

You read everything you read in the context of the books you’ve read before. Women Who Run with the Wolves was important for me because I had been reading Jung for years, talking about it, and working on creativity. For example, in The Courage to Write, I can explain creativity more clearly with examples from Women Who Run with the Wolves.

– And The Handmaid’s Tale?

Margaret Atwood is not an author I find very strong; I cared more about the idea at the core of the series or the novel rather than the novel itself. I attribute the success of the series to its ability to depict a reality that we already live within. I believe that the story in the series has crossed many people’s minds before. This is actually the symbolic story of our relationship with society as women. Since the story felt so familiar to all of us, seeing it on screen draws us to the series.

AFTER READING MY BOOK, I HOPE YOU FIND MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT LIFE

– So, what do you think we’ll feel after reading your books?

If we aren’t shaken, nothing is changing in our lives, we aren’t evolving, and we remain the same. A loyal reader of mine wrote: “Your books actually make my life harder, they bring my thoughts into more confrontation with the order. I find conflicts that didn’t exist before.” They also added, quoting Kafka, “The book we read should be like an axe thrown into our soul.” As my reader said, I want my book to make the reader’s life harder, disturb their comfort, and show them that the crutch they rely on is not real.

– It’s necessary to be uncomfortable, indeed!

Our ground will be shattered so that we can rebuild it. I don’t know how others will feel; but if you’re the same person after reading the book as you were before reading it, it means my book hasn’t given you anything. For my part, I hope that after reading my book, you find more problems in life.

– You’ve also touched on the aspects of fairy tales in our lives: Cinderella, Snow White, The Ugly Duckling… How did you come to see fairy tales in a different light?

This happens naturally over the years. While reading Hegel, I suddenly stopped and asked myself: “What’s the difference between Cinderella finding a stepmother who expects something from her when she’s 10 or 11 years old and a little girl’s mother turning into someone who expects work from her?” Both long for the mother who can love her child without making her work. The real mother is the one who can love her child under any circumstance, and does not evaluate her daughter based on what she does. Because conditional love is not real love, Cinderella cannot feel loved by her stepmother even though she works a lot. In fact, her working a lot is driven by her desire and need to be loved. But that void cannot be filled. The prince won’t be able to fill it either. Hegel and Lacan both explain this. Because the prince cannot fill that void, Snow White turns into the evil witch. I believe that Snow White, the evil witch, or the stepmother are the same person.

THE STEP-MOTHER IN FAIRY TALES IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BIOLOGICAL MOTHER

The mother archetype consists of two opposing archetypes: the “angel mother” and the “witch,” the “evil witch.” The “angel mother” archetype is well-known to all of us; but we make a critical mistake when we think of the evil witch side of the mother as a result or part of the angel mother. Just because a mother does something, doesn’t mean it’s for the good of the child. A mother is not God; she is a human being full of mistakes and weaknesses; moreover, all the disappointments she has experienced as a girl are reflected back to her in the form of a mirror when she faces her own child. We show our most positive sides to our children, but no one easily realizes that the person showing the most negative side is their own child. When society always backs the mother against the child, it creates a toxic society.

– What do you mean by that?

What turns the world into hell today is associating the mother with heaven. However, the one who loves unconditionally and forgives is not the mother; it’s the child. The child is the one who is always angelic in front of the mother; we see our own evil in the child.

MOTHERHOOD IS SOMETHING THAT CAN ONLY BE SOLVED THROUGH ADOPTION

– Do you think our mothers realize that they hurt us somewhere? (Maybe they actually realize it, but they also condemn themselves to silence. They don’t have the courage to confess and change things…)

For our mothers to realize how they hurt us, they first need to realize how they were hurt by their own mothers. This cycle can only be broken in this way. Therefore, every mother should read what I’ve written, not as a mother, but as a child. This is very important! Anyone who gets angry at what I’ve written is getting angry as a mother, not as a child. But motherhood is something that can only be solved through adoption.

– Do you think we can find our true sexual identity?

I read this question as “Do you think we can find ourselves?” These two are actually the same. Both are an endless process. Maybe that’s the beautiful part of it. Like how searching for our lives is our life itself. If we’ve found it, we have already died spiritually.

– Why is the reality of a woman being a woman ignored when she becomes a mother?

Dividing a woman into two categories—innocent, desireless, angelic, Virgin Mary, and a being with feminine desires—is convenient for the audience. However, as I explained in the book, motherhood is the most open expression of female sexuality. Motherhood and sexual desire are intertwined, both in the brain and in reality. It’s wrong to perceive sexuality and parenthood as opposing forces. Separating these two helps construct a false perception that controls the masses and distorts individuals. Why would a man marry a woman he can’t enjoy? Or if I see my mother as a desireless woman, how can I build my sexual identity as a child, and therefore, my entire identity?

WE ARE WOUNDING THE SOULS OF BOTH GIRLS AND BOYS

– You’ve titled the second part of your book “Living for Others.” In our society, we often hear from our mothers, “I sacrificed my hair for you,” etc. Do you think that when a woman becomes a mother, she harms her children the most by living only for them?

I think that’s a good summary, yes. If we can’t be individuals, we can’t allow our children to be individuals either.

– In your book, you emphasize that our marriage will be as we desire. But once we close our door, the work doesn’t end. Where should we start healing?

When I close my door, the work really does end. Both you and your spouse must stand tall; but not against the outside world, first and foremost within yourselves. The center must be within you, and everything should be built from there. Indeed, if I’m not standing tall inside, how can I stand tall with my spouse? It won’t work.

– Why does the world revolve around girls?

When we stop wounding the souls of girls, the world will naturally improve, for both women and men. We also wound the souls of boys along with the girls; we can’t think of these separately.

REALIZING THIS IS SUCH A CRUCIAL STEP

– What you say in your book and your suggestions are so right! But it’s hard for a person to explain these things even to their own family, let alone to society. How will we adapt all this into our lives?

The important thing is to explain these things to ourselves. If we cut the emotional umbilical cord with our parents, meaning if we symbolically re-birth ourselves as we were physically born, we will no longer need to convince them. Then, no matter what anyone thinks, it won’t bother us. In reality, there’s no one stopping us from being ourselves; we were lied to about there being obstacles. Only then, we will accept our parents with their thoughts that disturb us. The only world that exists is the one inside us. Everything that’s outside is inside!

– You talk about Estes’ methods of river cleansing. Although this seems like an individual task, we actually need help too. How can this river be cleaned? What do you do when you get stuck?

I experience blockages in many different ways. Since I’m aware of my blockages, I’m also aware of the root causes of my problems, and for this same reason, I want to help others. What I’ve written is the result of those blockages. I hope that, for others, they become a space to open up just as they did for me. I hope it helps everyone to open up.

– Gender inequality dates back centuries. How will we get out of this?

The moment we realize how something that we’ve normalized in our lives has settled there, why it settled, and how it governs us, that’s when everything will begin. After that, it’s up to us.

– The last part, “A World of the Children Who Haven’t Died,” affected me the most. (I even cried.) We are the children who survived by chance and are truly fighting for survival, aren’t we? And we are deeply wounded…

Realizing this is such an important step…

Damla Karakuş: Thank you.

Nihan Kaya: Thank you.

Damla Karakuş
March 25, 2019

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