I spoke with Nihan Kaya about the relationship between literature and psychology, some of the concepts in her books, other forms of art outside of literature, her personal writing rituals, and daily life.
I wrote my master’s thesis on Nihan Kaya’s novels. Before continuing my doctoral studies with a thesis on Nihan Kaya’s books, we met in Istanbul for a general interview. Nihan Kaya, who graduated from the Department of English Literature at Boğaziçi University and later studied Psychoanalysis and Comparative Literature in London, has eight books in Turkish. We discussed the relationship between literature and psychology, some of the concepts in her books, other art forms outside of literature, her personal writing rituals, and her daily life.
A. ARSLAN: As a writer interested in psychology and literature, is there a particular author/poet/psychologist/psychoanalyst who holds a special place for you? If so, how do you evaluate this in the writing/reading process?
N. KAYA: All the writers I love are already good psychologists for me. For example, Marcel Proust is a very good psychologist to me. Tanpınar and Peyami Safa are also very good psychologists for me. In all the great literature I see, I find a good psychologist. It’s interesting that you ask this question. For example, there is Ursula Wirtz, who lives in Zurich. She is a psychoanalyst I admire very much, and I cannot think of her books apart from literature in a sense. Ursula Wirtz is someone with great depth. Because I observe her depth in the context of literature and psychology, I perceive her in this way as well. So, I can give Ursula Wirtz as an example.
A. ARSLAN: In your book The Courage to Write, we see a different understanding of writing, one that is in the line of Carl Gustav Jung, Rollo May, and Paul Tillich. Could you evaluate the writer who tries to exist not in the Ivory Tower but in the Ivory Pit from your perspective?
N. KAYA: We use all words approximately. Nothing is absolutely existing in nature. Ideally, the Ivory Pit is the place a writer tries to be. But in reality, we are never in a tower, nor in a pit, nor vertical nor horizontal. We are always somewhere in between. Trying to move from one place to another is part of being human. I am trying to express that effort. For example, some criticize me for making literature too sacred, for seeing the artist as someone standing in a higher, separate place. But what I am trying to express is the effort of a person trying to do something good. I’m talking about the effort to reach that Ivory Pit, to be there, and the inner dynamics related to it.
A. ARSLAN: So, in order to see the vertical, it seems that the writer, poet, or psychologist has to be pulled towards it.
N. KAYA: I believe so. If you look at it, you see that all artists have distanced themselves from horizontal life. We see that they have a problem with horizontal life. This means there is such a need. But some writers can walk the horizontal life more easily. Others, like me, struggle more with it. One of my main problems is that my horizontal skills are weak. That’s why I describe it as the “Ivory Pit.” Maybe there are writers who can manage the horizontal life without needing a concept like the Ivory Pit. I can’t say anything about that. I am just expressing my understanding of literature.
A. ARSLAN: Is there a new work you are currently working on? If so, are we expecting a novel, a story, or something else?
N. KAYA: I am a writer who tries not to write as much as possible. For me, there is always a topic. There are endless topics everywhere, and all of them constantly call you to write them. However, I believe that a work becomes more beautiful if it is not written. I try as much as I can not to write it. It’s true that I take notes. But which one will turn into a work depends on time and their maturation. I don’t think of myself as a novelist because I express myself. People think we are novelists because we express ourselves well, but in fact, I had to be a novelist because I couldn’t express myself.
A. ARSLAN: Can you share how much your daily life, outside the writing process, occupies your time?
N. KAYA: I struggle with this a lot because writing and reading are easy for me. Everything else is very difficult. Maybe I am wrong, but if I didn’t have problems like sleeping and eating, life would be much easier. Having a body is very hard for me. In this sense, the things we have to do for horizontal life are hard. Because everything in my life must be clean and organized. For example, in my home, my books are like candles. So I do give space to daily life, but since I care about it, it is difficult for me. My books are very neat because they are in my head in a chaotic state. They are all intertwined, so I have to see them in a straight, neat way on the outside. Or since my mind is already chaotic, the writing room needs to be very neat. That’s why I make everything clean and organized. Only then can I write. My desk must be empty, clean, and there will be nothing on it. Only the topic I am writing about will be there.
A. ARSLAN: Has Istanbul held a special place in your life and writing process?
N. KAYA: I think so. Many of the things I write have Istanbul heavily in them. For example, in The Secret Subject in front of you, Istanbul itself is a character.
A. ARSLAN: Or in Mist, there is a process that starts in Palestine and comes to Istanbul.
N. KAYA: Yes, Istanbul is always there, either as a place to go to or to analyze. I didn’t necessarily have to be in Istanbul for this. Even though I may have written some of them in England or in the city where my family lives, I have a very deep inner connection with Istanbul. Therefore, I think Istanbul always somehow appears in the things I write.
A. ARSLAN: In this age, where understanding the “human” requires a great effort, doesn’t writing about the “human” become difficult?
N. KAYA: From my perspective, writing about humans is not difficult. What is difficult is more so the horizontal life and the many requirements it imposes on us. Therefore, I am constantly trying to draw attention to the fact that “human is this; human is multi-faceted, varied, and flexible.” What is difficult for me is not that. If that were difficult, I probably wouldn’t be a writer. Life is difficult for me, and that’s why I write.
A. ARSLAN: What drives you to write?
N. KAYA: I was asked this question in an interview recently. It’s like Manganelli’s writing about shoe laces. Before reading that, my friends would joke about me because I can’t tie my shoes. So, I used to say I write novels. Then, when I read this part in Manganelli’s writing, I really liked it. Perhaps the reason I write is because, like Manganelli, I can never learn to tie my shoes. Since I lack horizontal skills, maybe I have turned to another world. I have a fight with horizontal life. I can’t do certain things, like not being able to light the stove… It’s not that I don’t try, I do. Maybe this is it. Of course, this is just one of the many reasons I could give.
A. ARSLAN: Do you prepare for writing? Do you have a special room, computer, pen, etc.?
N. KAYA: You can jot down a few sentences on a piece of paper while on the road. But when I sit down to write, I prefer a quiet room. The room should be as quiet, empty, and tidy as possible. If there is someone else at home, even if it’s my mother, I can’t write, even if they are at the other end of the house. Therefore, solitude is my preferred method. I can say that solitude is a preference for me.
A. ARSLAN: Do you have any unique writing rituals? Do you have drafts?
N. KAYA: You know this already, I say it often in other interviews. Since I try not to write as much as possible, I start with notebooks. For example, before writing a novel, I fill up a notebook with notes. I usually don’t go back to that notebook while writing the novel. However, sometimes that note leads to an epiphany. So, it is useful for me to look through those notebooks and check after finishing the novel. Yes, in this sense, I use drafts.
A. ARSLAN: What do you think writing is as an action?
N. KAYA: If I could give a brief answer to this, I probably wouldn’t have written the book The Courage to Write. I would have just said the sentence. (Laughter)
A. ARSLAN: What do you think reading is as an action? Do you use a special chair or room for reading?
N. KAYA: I can read under any condition. Whether in the air, on the ground, with noise, or in silence. I may not prefer to write in noise, but reading is a simpler, more relaxed, and relatively passive activity.
A. ARSLAN: Do you drink or eat anything while writing or reading? Do you listen to music?
N. KAYA: I can’t do anything else while listening to music. I only listen to music as music. Music is already intense enough for me by itself. When writing, I also can’t do anything else. If I’m writing something light, like answering a questionnaire, I might drink something alongside it. I do have a special fondness for certain teas. But of course, during intense writing sessions, I don’t drink, eat, or do anything else. There have been times I’ve written for days without eating or drinking. For example, when I wrote Mist, I hadn’t eaten or slept for about a week. But what you write also determines how you write it. So, depending on which phase of writing I’m in, it also affects how I write. Because there are all sorts of writing processes, and they all exist within each of us, each one also existing within the others. I don’t write in just one way. But when I’m thinking about a topic, I usually pace around the house.
A. ARSLAN: What are your thoughts on painting, music, theater, cinema, and other art forms?
N. KAYA: I think what I write already answers this question. Let me give you an example: Painters who read The Courage to Write come and ask, “Where did you learn to paint so well?” And I respond by saying I don’t know painting. In fact, I don’t professionally know anything except literature. I don’t professionally know poetry either. For example, I give examples of poetry there, but my knowledge of poetry comes from knowing novels. All art forms have a common point. Therefore, when reading something about painting or poetry, I understand it because I think of it through the lens of the novel. So, I can say that I professionally know the novel, but I don’t know any other art form professionally. My understanding of all other art forms comes from my deep, internal connection with novels. Because what makes the novel art is the same thing that makes other art forms art. If I hadn’t understood the novel, I wouldn’t have understood painting either. That’s why people who know painting think I know it, even though I don’t.
A. ARSLAN: What are your thoughts on Classical Turkish Islamic Arts?
N. KAYA: The terms “Classical Art” or “Traditional Art” seem a bit problematic to me. Can something be both traditional and art at the same time? If it can produce something new within itself, without severing its connection to tradition, if it can create something with a new interpretation, then it is art. But if it’s just classical and traditional, and merely a continuation or a copy of an art form, then I don’t think it can be considered art. Therefore, the expression of “traditional art” or “classical art” is an oxymoron within itself. If we use the modern expression, classical art also has meaning when we look back at it from today. I always emphasize in The Courage to Write that an artwork must be both local and universal. Therefore, what you write can be Turkish, it can be about Islam, but it becomes meaningful as long as it remains universal as well. So, if you do something related to both Turkish-Islamic and universal art, I believe you are creating true art. For example, English is important for that reason. A lot of things in the global academy are done through English. You must read the original. How can you understand Turkish literature’s own identity without knowing world literature and without connecting through the world language, English? What makes Turkish literature Turkish is both what is within it and what is outside of it. This is true for everything.
A. ARSLAN: Nihan, thank you very much for taking the time to have this lovely conversation with us.
N. KAYA: I thank you very much.
Abdurrahman Arslan
January 13, 2017